The Double Standard Outside The Borders Of The USA

by Samuel Turk

[The following enlightening conversation recently took place in a Facebook group page: Fundamental Baptist Preachers (Open Group, anyone can see the group, who’s in it, and what members post). It does make a difference what translation of the Bible you use—a HUGE difference. And that is just as true on the foreign mission fields as it is in the USA. Note the excellent posts made by Leroy Goodman. And note especially the excellent post by Bible translator Brian James Nibbe, Sr. at the very end of the conversation. Pastors need to take heed to what he says, and be careful not to support hypocrite missionaries who falsely claim to abhor Critical-Text-based translations while raising support from pro-KJV churches, but then advocate a Critical-Text-based translation on their mission field.]

[Initial Post, May 10, 2013] by

Samuel Turk:

“By financially supporting the use of Critical-Text-based translations on foreign mission fields, independent Baptists are paying for the opposition to, and destruction of, true independent Baptist mission work on those fields. We would be better off to support no missionaries at all, than to support the enemies of the Bible upon which we base all our beliefs.”

Satanic Motivation

[End Post]

[Begin conversation]

Nick Bernhard:

You cannot be serious. How ignorant to say that it would be better off to support no missionary than for them to find Jesus Christ through a Bible version you don’t happen to support. The end result no matter which text-base you choose to adhere to is the same…souls coming to Christ. How can you be against that?

Samuel Turk:

No where in my post nor in the article linked to my post does it say anything like what you just posted. What it says is that: BY FINANCIALLY SUPPORTING THE USE OF CRITICAL-TEXT-BASED translations on foreign mission fields, INDEPENDENT BAPTIST ARE PAYING FOR THE OPPOSITION TO, AND DESTRUCTION OF, TRUE INDEPENDENT BAPTIST MISSION WORK ON THOSE FIELDS. We would be better off to support no missionaries at all, than to support the enemies of the Bible upon which we base all our beliefs.

Here is a question for you to ponder: Do critical-text-based translations teach the Gospel ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?

Answer: No.

If we want to reach the world with the Gospel we had better get back to being concerned about doing it ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES (1 Cor. 15:1-4).

Please read THE PARABLE OF WATER:

Samuel Turk:

Please also read: RECEIVED TEXT FOR THE WORLD:

Nick Bernhard:

You said “We would be better off to support no missionaries at all…” My interpretation of this is that you’d rather that people not hear at all than that they hear something that you consider ‘tainted’.

Samuel Turk:

Please finish the quote: “…than to support the enemies of the Bible upon which we base all our beliefs.”

Samuel Turk:

Muslims also send missionaries. And yes, “tainted” is a good word. Where do you draw the line? Satan fights hard to destroy the foundations. Yes, I would say put your money where your heart is and then be openly honest with what you believe. Those who agree with the critical-text-based bibles should be honest about it and get their support from like minded believers. Not from KJV Bible believing churches.

Nick Bernhard:

I switched to the ESV after 27 years of using the KJV, what would you say about me? Am I an enemy?

Samuel Turk:

Well, do you support or oppose the truths found in the KJB?

Samuel Turk:

Hosea 4:6 (KJV) ¶ My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 (KJV) As they were increased, so they sinned against me: [therefore] will I change their glory into shame.
Hosea 4:8 (KJV) They eat up the sin of my people, and they set their heart on their iniquity.
Hosea 4:9 (KJV) And there shall be, like people, like priest: and I will punish them for their ways, and reward them their doings.

Jeremiah 5:30 (KJV) A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
Jeremiah 5:31 (KJV) The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

In our day, why would they “prophesy falsely” and “bear rule by their means“? Because, without an accurate translation of the Bible the missionary is forced to either teach the errors in the translation as truth, or else correct them as he preaches and teaches, therefore becoming the final authority in the eyes of the people instead of their Bible.

Why do the people “love to have it so”? Because they want to have a “good report.” They want to hear about people added to the “church” and not about verses translated.

We complain here in the states about churches that go liberal and use the NIV, or other perverted translations of the Bible, and become more of a place of entertainment than a place of worship. Yet, we support that very same behavior on the foreign field.

To be blunt, many pastors are more concerned about a “good report” more so than an “honest report”.

2 Corinthians 13:7 (KJV) ¶ Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2 Corinthians 13:8 (KJV) For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2 Corinthians 13:9 (KJV) For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, [even] your perfection.
2 Corinthians 13:10 (KJV) Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.
2 Corinthians 13:11 (KJV) ¶ Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
2 Corinthians 13:12 (KJV) Greet one another with an holy kiss.
2 Corinthians 13:13 (KJV) All the saints salute you.
2 Corinthians 13:14 (KJV) The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. The second [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi, [a city] of Macedonia, by Titus and Lucas.

Nick Bernhard:

The KJV and ESV contain the same truths… so, yes, I do agree with the truths found within.

Leroy Goodman:

They may contain some of the same truths, but do they contain ALL of the same truths? Tell me, Nick Bernhard, according to the ESV, who are the three that bear record in 1 John 5:7? Where do the spirit, water, and blood bear record according to 1 John 5:8?

Samuel Turk:

Nick, check also Psalm 12:6&7. In the ESV God’s promise of preserving His word is, at the very least, weak. “keep” is there, but “preserve” is changed to “guard” and “them” [God’s words] is changed to “us.”

Nick Bernhard:

Ahh yes… the great fallacy of holding the KJV up as the standard by which every other translation must be measured by.

Samuel Turk:

Nick, I appreciate your openness and I pray that all men who believe like you will show the same honesty, openness and boldness for what they believe. As we all should.

Leroy Goodman:

Nick Bernhard, do some research and you will find that even the translators of the ESV believe that the KJV is the standard bearer.

Nick Bernhard:

Leroy, I would fully agree that the KJV was the most perfect translation of it’s time. I studied this thoroughly before switching to the ESV. I have found that the arguments for KJVOism to be circular and flawed. I truly believe that Satan has used this seemingly ’worthy cause’ to fracture the body of Christ and cause a great hinderance to God’s people. Why can we not agree of the fundamentals that are clearly laid out in scripture and work together based on this? Isn’t this what true fundamentalism is? How many more could be reached if we would put our differences aside and simply rally around Christ! ?

Leroy Goodman:

You cannot properly rally around Christ without rallying around His word at the same time. The importance of His word is clearly taught in scripture. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the WORD OF GOD. An important part of evangelism is the Word of God. The Bible issue is not a side issue, it is a key issue.

Nick Bernhard:

Samuel, I was not always open like this. The sad fact is that fundamentalism as we know it nowadays is very elitist. Any departure from the ‘standards’ is cause for separation (even despite valid reasons and scriptural support). I’ve seen many churches refuse to work together because of such fleeting and superficial things like the use of a guitar, or the hymnal that one church may use. Because of this, I kept my mouth shut about what I was dealing with in my own heart. It took a few years of God dealing with me about these issues before I could speak freely about them. I lost many friends because of it. I knew it would happen, but I also knew that I could not continue pretending to be someone who I was not. Despite this, I am so very glad that God opened my eyes to the truth that I had ignored for so long.

Nick Bernhard:

Leroy, so you are declaring that you would not work with someone who used a different Bible version than the KJV? If our Bibles teach the same thing, then I fail to see why you would not work with me. Give me something that the KJV clearly teaches that the ESV does not.

Leroy Goodman:

Nick Bernhard, just answer this and then I will explain how your question is built on a faulty premise, do you believe that we need a Bible that contains EVERY WORD of God or a Bible that contains every IDEA of God?

Nick Bernhard:

lol… okay, I’ll play along. You act as if this is a new question for me. It would be ideal to have EVERY WORD of God, however, translation is not as simple as taking one word and converting it to the equivalent word of the new language. Because of differences in language structures, we have to rely on the IDEA instead of the actual WORDS.

Leroy Goodman:

God did not say we would live by His IDEA’s, He promised we would live by his WORD’s God did not say He would PRESERVE His IDEA’s, he said he would preserve his WORDS. Your position is a position that DOUBTS God, my position is a position that TRUSTS God. I believe that God has preserved his words and that when I read them as faithfully translated into English via the KJB, I am reading the very WORDS of God.

Leroy Goodman:

With your position, at least be honest enough to say that you believe the ESV contains the Idea’s of God and not the Words of God

Nick Bernhard:

Leroy, I’m certainly not here to convince you that the KJV contains errors… all I ask is that we find common ground and press forward for Christ based on that common ground. Is that not possible?

Leroy Goodman:

#1 – I have heard about these “errors” all my life and not one person has ever shown me any of them. The last guy just said “trust me they are there.”

Leroy Goodman:

#2- I cannot work alongside of anyone who is practicing something that the Bible condemns. Changing of Scripture is heavily condemned in scripture and I will have no part of any ministry which commits these errors.

Nick Bernhard:

It is very sad that fellow believers cannot work together without these quarrels.

Samuel Turk:

I agree. It’s very sad. How wonderful it would be to rally around truth for the sake of truth and missions rather than rally around compromise for the sake of unity. “For the sake of Christ…” or “For the sake of missions…” let us compromise. This seems to be the rally cry for justification of using CT based translations on the mission fields. How about for the Glory of God we honor His word? Unity is found in His word, not rallying around compromise. Jesus prayed for unity in John 17. He prayed in verse 11 “that they may be one, as we are” and in verse 17 he prayed, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy WORD is truth.” I pray God’s people can and will get back to these basics.

Samuel Turk:

Verbal, plenary inspiration, verbal, plenary preservation, and verbal plenary translation of the original texts of God’s word is the foundation of all Christian doctrines, because, if our Bible isn’t reliable, then we can’t be sure that anything the Bible teaches is true. Most independent Baptists pastors correctly believe the King James Version (KJV) of 1611 to be a perfect translation of those original texts into the English language, and they are therefore careful to make sure that the missionaries they support use the King James Bible (KJB which is the KJV) in the English language, and that is certainly important. But the fact is that most countries in this world do not speak English. So, what is far more important to know about missionaries to non-English-speaking countries is, Do they, or do they not, use translations of the divinely inspired and divinely preserved Masoretic Hebrew Old Testament text and Textus Receptus Greek New Testament text?

A Line In The Sand

Brian James Nibbe, Sr.:

I am a missionary; we have done a translation that is Masoretic and TR; we were opposed vociferously by fellow missionaries who said to move away from the common CT translation was to introduce confusion. Our translation was verified by experts to be superior, yet I/we are attacked horribly by men who claim to abhor CT translations. There is a double standard outside the borders of the USA.  Samuel Turk has mentioned a great problem. I know whereof I speak, I have lived this for the last 12 years.